Home
Lakers News: Dan D’Antoni Says Small Ball Should Be Called ‘Skill Ball’ Reviewed by Momizat on . [new_royalslider id="138"] A large portion of the frustrations that came with the worst regular season record in Los Angeles Lakers history was head coach Mike [new_royalslider id="138"] A large portion of the frustrations that came with the worst regular season record in Los Angeles Lakers history was head coach Mike Rating: 0
You Are Here: Home » News » Lakers News: Dan D’Antoni Says Small Ball Should Be Called ‘Skill Ball’

Lakers News: Dan D’Antoni Says Small Ball Should Be Called ‘Skill Ball’

Share on FacebookTweet about this on Twitter

A large portion of the frustrations that came with the worst regular season record in Los Angeles Lakers history was head coach Mike D’Antoni’s affinity to play with smaller lineups even when injuries didn’t necessitate that he do so.

It was a philosophy that worked for D’Antoni when he was coach of the Phoenix Suns during a time where his offenses were powered by a youthful Steve Nash, a pre-injury Amar’e Stoudemire and the versatile Shawn Marion, to go along with several other interchangeable pieces. D’Antoni’s Suns teams were ahead of their time, pushing the ball up and down the court en route to overwhelming their opponents with scoring, speed and athleticism.

– Lakers Nation Store Is Back! Check Out The Latest Gear! –

For several reasons which can be argued, the Suns failed to win an NBA title, but D’Antoni continued to implement the style of play with the New York Knicks and then the Lakers. He has yet been able to duplicate the success he had in Phoenix, but remains confident the uptempo style and NBA titles are not exclusive of each other and looked no further than the back-to-back champion Miami Heat, according to Trevor Wong of Lakers.com:

Last year, you essentially had both teams – (Miami and San Antonio) – playing the same style that we had in Phoenix,” D’Antoni said. “Not only did (Miami) win once, but they won twice in a row. Obviously playing this way doesn’t inhibit you from being an NBA champion.”

Though the NBA has began to shift towards a more fast-paced game, Wong reports D’Antoni is well aware of the negative reaction change can elicit:

People are comfortable with doing business a certain way. When that business kind of shifts to get people to change, it’s not easy. It’s a process.”

As for the common label of “small ball” that is often placed on D’Antoni’s preferred style, his brother and assistant coach Dan, offers a different description:

We should name it skill ball,” Dan said. “You’re playing guys that are skilled. You see that across the line. Miami has shown that. I thought we showed it at times in Phoenix. Your five best guys are going to get on the floor and play, and you’ll find the right position for them.”

No matter the name, the D’Antoni brothers have yet to win over the Lakers fan base. Their tenure in Los Angeles has certainly been marred by injuries during a period where expectations are arguably higher than usual with Kobe Bryant’s career winding down.

With Jim Buss recently vowing to have the Lakers contending for conference titles and NBA championships within three to four years, whether or not the ‘skill ball’ offense will get an opportunity to flourish in Los Angeles remains to be seen.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Lakers D’Antoni And Mitch Kupchak Respond To Kobe Bryant Leaving For France


Share on FacebookTweet about this on Twitter

About The Author

Matthew Moreno is a journalist from Whittier, Calif., serving as an associate editor at Dodgers Nation. A Cal State Long Beach graduate, Moreno also contributes to Lakers Nation, and previously served as a co-editor and lead writer at Reign of Troy, where he covered USC Football.

Number of Entries : 79
  • http://www.haveslot.com/ richard

    The INdiana Pacers are having a hard time with the Atlanta Hawks playing small ball, or should I say, “skill ball”… This is going to be hard for the Pacers…

    • Spitfire

      That is the league is heading. Skill ball and MDA is the innovator of that.

  • meghan

    Why is he not fired yet?

  • Eazy

    Shaddup Dan. Personally I never trust anyone who’s first name is embedded in their last name :/

  • meghan

    Byron Scott, George Karl, Lynoll Hollins, I ll take any of the van gundys…anyone but the dantoni brothers

    • Dino Madness

      I feel your pain Meghan, at this point I’ll take anyone that you mention over D’Antoni’s delusional vision which is a road to no where. The man simply refuses to make adjustments when they violate his small ball principles. If D’Antoni stays no decent center or power forward will want to play here. That’s why Hill, Kaman and Gasol will not return, if I was then I wouldn’t want to return either as long as D’Antoni is here we are DOOM.

      • Josh

        Jordan Farmar’s exit interview makes it pretty clear. All a big has to be willing to do is set a pick and roll to the basket. That’s it, and he can be great in MDA’s offense. Just set a pick and roll to the basket.

  • ra

    ok. Skill ball. But ‘skill-ball’ requires ‘skilled players’ (like LeBron, healthy Steve Nash). There is ‘some skill’ on the Lakers. Where is the ‘championship skill’?

    small-ball is easy to defend. Anyone under 6’4” and rather speedy can qualify as a ‘small-ball’ type player. (yes, I know, 6’4” isn’t really ‘small’ but for a basketball player, on the ‘smaller side). Not anyone who plays ‘small-ball’ can qualify as a ‘skill-ball’ player.

    • Spitfire

      Easy to defend?’! LOL…the reason ehy the Pacers are having a hard time winning against the Hawks. LOL

  • Shannon

    He mentioned Miami winning but they have these two guys named Lebron and
    Dwyane who are pretty frigging good at basketball. Miami struggles with
    rebounding with their “small ball” approach but their team is so
    skilled it doesn’t inhibit them. The Lakers on the other hand aren’t as
    talented so small ball doesn’t work for us.

    • Daryl Peek

      And you are absolutely correct as you just described part of the problem, the talent difference.

    • michael

      and they struggle against good defense. The nets showed it.

    • Spitfire

      This is the whole article, read it.

      It’s no secret the landscape of the NBA has changed.

      Fewer teams employ traditional five-man lineups with a power forward and center. Rather, you will find a small forward or swingman playing a stretch-four alongside a power forward at the center position.

      “When we started in Phoenix, they said you couldn’t win playing the way we wanted,” Lakers assistant coach Dan D’Antoni said. “We were the only team playing that way.”

      Those Suns’ teams, where Dan was an assistant on his brother Mike’s staff from 2003-08, often used Shawn Marion at the four and Amaré Stoudemire at the five, both players generally more athletic and quicker than most opponents they matched up against at their position.

      With Steve Nash engineering high-powered offenses, those Phoenix teams tallied seasons of 62, 54, 61 and 55 wins. The furthest they advanced in the playoffs, though, was the Western Conference Finals.

      Your browser does not support iframes.
      Conventional thinking remained that teams needed a big man or big men to be championship contenders. The Lakers had Shaquille O’Neal during their “3-peat” run during the early 2000s; the Spurs had “Twin Towers” in David Robinson and Tim Duncan while winning three titles (1999, 2003, 2005); the Lakers had Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol during back-to-back championships in 2009-10.

      “Some of the hard part of coaching is to be able to drag people over to the next side,” Mike D’Antoni said at Lakers’ exit interviews. “People are comfortable with doing business a certain way. When that business kind of shifts to get people to change, it’s not easy. It’s a process.”

      Over the last two seasons, however, the Miami Heat have bucked that trend. Coach Erik Spoelstra used LeBron James, listed at 6-foot-8, 250 pounds, at the four, and Chris Bosh, at 6-foot-11, 235 pounds at the five, while traditionally playing smaller lineups centered around the versatility of James.

      ”Last year, you essentially had both teams – (Miami and San Antonio) – playing the same style that we had in Phoenix,” D’Antoni said. “Not only did (Miami) win once, but they won twice in a row. Obviously playing this way doesn’t inhibit you from being an NBA champion.”

      During the 2013-14 season, a number of teams boasted more success employing smaller lineups.

      Golden State’s top two lineups used David Lee at the five, with Draymond Green or Harrison Barnes at the four, plus Andre Iguodala, Klay Thompson and Stephen Curry. Their best combination of Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Green and Lee boasted an offensive rating of 123.4 and a defensive rating of 89.2 – a net rating of 34.2. *Net rating measures a team’s point differential per 100 possessions.

      Even during the 2012-13 campaign, the Warriors frequently used a three-guard lineup of Curry, Jarrett Jack and Thompson, alongside Green and Lee towards an offensive rating of 105.1 and defensive rating of 89.5. Golden State has now appeared in the postseason in back-to-back years for the first time since the 1990-92 seasons.

      San Antonio, who secured the best record in the league this year, were at their best this season with a smaller lineup featuring Tony Parker, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Boris Diaw and Tim Duncan. In 104 minutes together, that five-man unit had an offensive rating of 112.6 and defensive rating of 85.3 for a net rating of 27.2. During their 2013 Finals run, the Spurs second-most used lineup featured Parker, Manu Ginobili, Leonard, Diaw and Duncan with a net rating of 6.8.

      Despite a number of injuries and a constant shuffling of the starting lineup during the 2013-14 campaign, the Lakers played far better going “small” on the floor. Eight of their top 10 lineups featured a stretch four in either Ryan Kelly or Wesley Johnson, alongside one big man – either Pau Gasol or Chris Kaman. Their most-productive, most-used lineup consisted of Kendall Marshall, Jodie Meeks, Nick Young, Kelly and Gasol. In 71 minutes of floor time together, that unit boasted an offensive rating of 121.9 and a defensive rating of 120.0 – a rating of 1.9.

      “Small ball” wasn’t just something Mike D’Antoni created overnight. Using these lineups also coincided with crucial rule changes the NBA has implemented over the years.

      “It’s not something that one person came up with,” Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said. “It’s really based on the rules and the way the NBA is, I guess, how they feel the game should be played. The NBA just felt an open game, more up and down, more scoring and less physicality is a better game to watch.”

      The league average for scoring during the 2000-01 season was 94.8, and only four teams averaged more than 100 points per game. In 2013-14, that figure increased to 101.1, and 17 teams topped the century mark on a per game basis. Teams played at a much faster pace and the three-point shot became much more valuable.

      During the 2000-01 season, Boston led the league in three-point attempts with 1,633. In 2013-14, 20 teams attempted more than that amount, with the Houston Rockets leading the NBA with 2,179 attempts. In fact, seven teams attempted more than 2,000 three-pointers over the course of the year, the others being the Atlanta Hawks, Portland Trail Blazers, Phoenix Suns, New York Knicks, Golden State Warriors and Lakers.

      “Everything is with logistics now,” Dan said. “They’re finding that spacing the floor and certain shots are more valuable than other shots. Probably the most valuable is the three-point shot.

      Kupchak echoed similar sentiments.

      “The rules today promote that style of play,” he said. “There are actually coaches today that tell their team we’re going to score in one of three ways: free throws, layups and three-pointers. The idea of a two-point shot doesn’t even come up in a conversation with some coaches. That’s just the way it is today.”

      Starting in 1994, the NBA eliminated hand checking, in essence giving more of an advantage to the offensive player.

      In 1997, the league cut down on the “no-charge area,” from a two-by-six foot box to an area to a half-circle with a four-foot radius. This rule change encouraged offensive players to get to the rim or get fouled and go to the free-throw line. Two years later, the league eliminated contact with hands and forearms by defenders in the backcourt and frontcourt, unless the offensiveplayer was below the free-throw line extended.

      “When they said you couldn’t put hands on defenders, it allows for easier penetration,” Dan said. “In Phoenix, we were one of the NBA leaders in points in the paint and the reason we were able to do that is because we pulled the defenders out of there that allows that drive and penetration and quickness and mobility of a five or a four to move around and get to the rim against players that aren’t quite as mobile.”

      In 2001, illegal defense guidelines were eliminated entirely, and a new defensive three-second rule prohibited defensive players from remaining in the key for more than three consecutive seconds without guarding an offensive player. Again, this placed more importance on players on the weak side, or shooters who could space the floor were much more valuable.

      “It’s essential that spacing is maintained and takes away the defense,” Dan continued. “That way when you beat your man – which we use the pick and roll a lot to do – to get into the paint, the defender has to come a long way and then he has a long way to recover, and that’s when we’re throwing the ball out and trying to get as many layups, (free throws) and three-point shots.”

      For most teams now, that is what they will do: put the five best players on the floor and try to maximize their skill sets.

      “We should name it skill ball,” Dan said. “You’re playing guys that are skilled. You see that across the line. Miami has shown that. I thought we showed it at times in Phoenix. Your five best guys are going to get on the floor and play, and you’ll find the right position for them.”

      • J Taylor

        I get it,
        Repost the article to make people read it.
        - I’m probably the only person who realized your method. (aka missed point of argument).

      • Shannon

        The argument still stands.

  • MIchael G

    The notion that Spurs and Heat play similar to D’Antoni style is laughable cuz the guy simply forgets that there are two facets to the game beyond ‘offense.’ they are called ‘defense’ and ‘rebounding.’ And both those teams play their butts off in those areas. His Phoenix teams and now his Laker teams didn’t and do not know anything about those two areas and he never even connects his ‘skill ball’ offense to those other areas. The brothers D’Antoni don’t seem to connect to the fact that ONLY jacking up 3′s leads to long rebounds and run outs for the opposition, that not playing ANY combinations of bigs leads to no rim protection and guys out of place against penetration. They don’t see that Spurs have a Hall of Fame low post player and often pair him with other low post guys, and a penetrating guard who doesn’t settle only for 3′s. and they gang attack the boards. and that the Heat dominate often on defense and shut the middle down. He can’t think past his ‘system.’ The notion that a Gasol and a Kamen or a Hill together might protect the rim better and do better on the boards and thus help his team control tempo and stop runouts is something the D’Antoni’s simply cannot grasp. His coaching this year was abysmal. Worst record in LA Laker history? Giving up 140, 150 its routinely? Outrebounded by 15 or 20 routinely? Give me a break. It wasn’t all cuz of ‘injuries.’ For over half that time, he had 2 and three bigs available and rarely played more than one of them at a time and completely wasted one on the bench on the notion that he had to ‘develop’ the clearly limited Sacre. Other fast teams like Spurs, Heat, Thunder, Clips, et al, all win only when they play hard defense and rebound. D’Antoni fast teams NEVER play defense or rebound. That is coaching, or rather, lack of coaching, pure and simple. (Not to mention failing to develop athletes like Wes Johnson, urging them to pull up for 3′s, when their skill set clearly cries out for attacking rim and boards). Fire him. Now. Please.

    • Mario Flores

      lol don’t put “Miami” and “rebounding” in the same sentence. Reason Miami’s good is because they have the best player in the basketball world, one of the best sidekicks in the basketball world, and those 2 are surrounded by shooters, and of course they’re unstoppable in transition. other than that I agree with what you said

    • hookedonnews

      Actually the numbers show that the Lakers were better defensively without Pau & Kaman on the floor together. I won’t address the rest of your comment (would take too long) other than to say–”it wasn’t because of injuries?” LOL. And failing to develop Wesley Johnson? Man, you’re killing me. I see these same statements every day, and they’re no more valid today than they were yesterday.

      • MIchael G

        Sigh. If you wanna go out and pretend “the numbers” illustrate that Gasol and Kaman had any significant time on the floor together this year when healthy, then fine. And if you wanna pretend that the Lakers and the Rockets and the Celtics and dozens of teams have not proven over the years that better rim protection and rebounding occurs when you have two talented bigs in the game together than when you play small ball, then fine. And if you wanna pretend that D’Antoni has ever coached any team to play quality, consistent defense, here or in NY or Phoenix, then great. As to injuries, I didn’t say they weren’t impacted by injuries. I said the injuries for a large slice of the year were to their many wing players primarily, and that they frequently had 2 and 3 talented bigs available, only to have one not get off the bench and a second get only a few backup minutes and two rarely, if ever, seeing significant court time together. Especially with all those injuries to your wing players, you want to argue there would be no merit to trying to control the boards and changing the pace and closing the lane and going into the post rather than trying to run with OKC and the Clippers, et al?? As to Wesley Johnson, perhaps you never counted the # of times he pulled up for jumpers or hung out on the wing rather than attacking the rim, even on fast break situations, but I saw it occur dozens of time. My point is that a better coach would have taught him to play to his strengths, his athleticism and slashing and jumping skills, rather than trying to train him to be a jump shooter first. If you think it’s most ‘valid’ to keep the coach with the worst record in Laker history, the guy who said it “wasn’t a factor” one day when asked if getting out-rebounded by 20 had something to do with yet another loss, we’ll just agree to disagree. You and D’Antoni can stick with your keen analysis of the numbers. Here’s some numbers for you: 27-55, 30 games out of first place. I’m fairly confident that George Karl, Coach K, Byron Scott, not to mention Phil or several others would have had a better record with this year’s team, and yes, this year’s injuries. LOL.

        • hookedonnews

          You can pretend that the numbers don’t show what they show. Time to climb out of the past. Put Kaman & Pau on the floor together and neither one of them have the room to operate plus you have two big slow guys on the floor trying to play defense.

          When did I say D’Antoni’s teams played great defense? I don’t mind defending my statements, but I never said that. His Suns teams were not great defensive teams, but they were so efficient offensively that they easily outscored most opponents. They weren’t as bad defensively as the Lakers have been this season by a long shot. They had some decent defenders, but never had a good defensive center. The pace allowed more possessions for the other team and more points scored. But they still won a lot more than they lost. D’Antoni’s record in NY was what you would expect when coming to a bad team, trying to rebuild, and the subsequent changes in personnel where you had half the team leaving because of the Melo trade, etc. The Lakers experience with the injuries, the sub-standard talent (especially the bench in his first season) is not something you can hang on MDA and claim it proves anything. Will he ever be a Tom Thibodeau-type coach? No. (Thibodeau could use some of his offense about now.) But to believe that this season proves anything is delusional. I’ve said repeatedly that if he had a healthy roster and they had this won/loss record, I would have no problem with him being fired.

          You know, other coaches had their shot at making a great player out of Wesley Johnson and failed. He had more success this season than he’s ever had, and yet you’re not satisfied.

          You might be confident that another coach would have had a better season with these players and the injuries, but you have zero proof to back up that assumption. The fact that players like Farmar, Henry, Blake, Marshall, Young, and yes, Wesley Johnson had career years would point in the opposite direction. And then there’s the development of Kelly and Sacre. That has something to do with coaching.

          Numbers do matter. Your refusal to see that this season was destroyed by injuries tells me that you’re not able to be objective. It’s not just because MDA was the coach that I understand what you refuse to acknowledge. I would say the same regardless of who was coaching. It’s nothing more than common sense.

          • MIchael G

            I can only chuckle at your reply. I’m not objective, but you are. You are satisfied with his coaching job this year and lay an historically bad record, defensive numbers, and rebounding numbers, as well as record-setting Laker losses exclusively at the feet at a rash of injuries, to the exclusion of any other factors or issues, and you are being objective. Got it. You brought up Coach Thibs: HE lost his primary player, the focal point of his offense for two years running and still made playoffs. HIS system was defense first with DRose and without him and he had more success. You say I have zero proof. I have tons of proof that phil would have played a different system and used Gasol, Kamen ,and Hill far differently than MDA did, and not sat Kamen and Hill in favor of Kelly and Wes Johnson out of position for long stretches at power forward, trying to guard guys significantly bigger than him. I have gobs of evidence that if it takes career nights from Meeks, Young, Marshall, and other guys just to beat Utah or Sacramento, and needing to set team records for three-pointers to win shootouts against such teams, and that MDA has a long history of real and deep and significant problems coaching defense. One does not need a PhD in hoopology to know that. Their few wins were as troubling as the dozens of losses because of the labor involved to beat the worst teams in the league, or team with their own stars out or resting. When the Lakers shot lights out, they had a chance. When they didn’t, the NEVER had a chance. that is not a recipe for good coaching. Your fetish for ‘career years’ brought you, as I noted, 30 games out of first place. Congratulations. I’m extremely confident in my statement, though I don’t share your “objectivity” and love of MDA’s “numbers.” Dozens of guys could have done better for the simple reason that you coach the personnel you HAVE. IF you have talented bigs, you use them. If you are not rebounding, you don’t sit your best rebounder. If you are getting waxed in the paint, you don’t sit your best low-post players. You don’t argue that being out rebounded by 20 has no impact on the outcome of games. And you don’t argue that “two slow big guys can’t play defense.” Guess you are too young or uninterested to have ever seen Parish and McHale play together, or Olajuwon and Sampson or Duncan and Robinson or dozens of other combos from over the years. People talk about those teams offensive capabilities, but in all their cases ,what made them WIN was their defensive dominance. they shut down alleys to the rim and they covered for each other. If a good defender left his man to chase a penetrating guard, he had a partner to cover the gap and protect the rim. But what do I know, I’m not objective like you. Your “numbers” are meaningless because you still haven’t shown me a single team that played consistently bad defense like MDA’s teams have always played, including in Phoenix, when they “were so efficient that they easily outscored most opponents” that got anywhere close to winning it all. You think having a prime Nash and Stoudimire and Marion can help you win enough shootouts to get you to the conference finals one or two years is a satisfactory result?? Even they didn’t come close to an actual championship. Why? Cuz they couldn’t stop great teams from scoring. That’s why. MDA doesn’t teach defense, doesn’t know defense and doesn’t think defense or rebounding. He thinks offensive system first and only. A system that got him a Coach of the Year Award and a couple playoff runs with a great Nash under optimal conditions. But as this year showed, under far less than optimal conditions, that system simply breaks down. It sucks. and therefore, it should be altered. the pace should be slowed. the paint should be clogged. the boards should be controlled. but these are concepts he, like you it appears, does not even comprehend. Instead, he’ll pass it off as ‘injuries,’ and the ‘league has changed,’ and all the rest of that drivel. well, here is one thing I can promise you: no one will win the title THIS year or ANY year in his ‘new’ NBA without playing some serious defense and rebounding. and the biggest most likely threat to take it away from LeBron is a team that practices and plays fundamental basketball with emphasis on defense, rebounding and a strong low-post game: the team with the best record in the league. San Antonio. They are older than most teams and slower than most teams. Yes, they shoot the 3 and picked up the pace a bit compared to the past. but they would be absolutely nowhere without their D and their low-post work with their HOF center. You honestly, truly want to argue with me that Coach Pop would not have gotten 12-15 more wins out of THIS year’s Lakers than MDA did? you honestly want to pontificate about me having “zero proof” of that? In your heart, you think he wouldn’t have? Come on. I know I’m not as ‘objective’ as you and all, but come on. Search your heart before you send me off another blast. Think it over. You can do better than your last missive.

          • AllTheFacts

            The fact that you can’t spell ‘Kaman’ (yes, with an ‘a’) right immediately takes away all of your credibility. And yes, injuries matter. And yes, numbers matter – in fact, they are a better source of evidence than your endless rambling.

          • MIchael G

            Well I guess you got me there. Thx for the substantive reply. It makes about as much sense as the rest of your argument. I’ll work on spelling his name right to make you happy, since that is your barometer. It didn’t come up last year when my fifth book made the NY Times Bestseller List.

          • AllTheFacts

            I’m sure you did. I’ll look for your name in the children’s section sometime.

          • MIchael G

            June 30, 2013. #17 Hardcover non-fiction. I only bother to tell you since you are so interested in numbers, and “all the facts.”

          • hookedonnews

            This is becoming tedious, but okay. Kaman (slow & injury prone) & Gasol off knee procedures and out of shape are not Parrish and McHale. The Celtics also had Larry Bird and some other great players. And yes, I’m claiming that those 2 slow big men (Gasol & Kaman) played poor defense. Neither McHale or Parrish were that old or slow. That last game where Pau & Kaman were on the floor together should have proven that it’s a bad idea to have them on the court together. Pau admitted as much.

            It seems to escape you that what you had on the floor most of the season was a group of guys who weren’t successful on other teams, who had never played together before, and who were in and out because of injuries for days and weeks at a time. You bring up Chicago, but they had one player missing. They still had Noah who is the heart of that team. They had a stable lineup for the vast majority of the season, and they play in the East. There is no comparison between what happened in LA & what went down in Chicago. Simply not having Kobe Bryant made more difference in LA than the absence of Rose in Chicago, and that was just the tip of the iceberg.

            When I said I was objective, I meant that I didn’t hate MDA from the day he walked in the door and was not so blinded by emotion that I couldn’t see the problems he was dealing with. I don’t know if he can be successful in LA. All I have advocated is a chance to coach a healthy roster so that he can be properly evaluated. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

            I don’t know how many wins Greg Popovich could have gotten out of this team, but he’s not God. He has had 20 win seasons in his career when he didn’t have the players. You can speculate all you want, but that is not proof of anything. Same goes for any coach you want to name. A different system doesn’t automatically mean more wins.

            I don’t think you’re familiar with what went on in Phoenix, and it would take too long to recount it all. Of course, the goal for every team is a championship, but it’s silly to pretend that anything short of that is a dismal failure. And no, lack of defense was not the reason they never won a championship. If you’ll go back and look at some of the scores of their games in the playoffs you’ll find that they weren’t allowing big numbers. Yes, the Suns had a great team in 2004/2005, but they weren’t as good as the Spurs because they didn’t have Tim Duncan. The Suns lost some of their best players over the remaining 3 seasons MDA was there because their FO didn’t want to pay them, but they still won over 50 games each season and went to the playoffs. There are plenty of people who believe that with a little bit of luck the Suns could have won a championship (even Kobe has said it), but that’s not the point. Any team is going to only be really successful if they have the players. You might survive an injury, but you’re not going to win many games with bench players competing against the Durants and LeBrons of the league.

            And as I’ve repeated ad nauseum, D’Antoni has emphasized defense since coming to LA. That’s easily proven with a little research. The inability of this team to play consistently good defense doesn’t mean there was no emphasis or that they weren’t working on it. He doesn’t have a “long history of significant problems teaching defense.” The defensive deficiencies of his Suns teams is exaggerated. His years in NY (something over 3 years) are a mixed bag. The team was bad when he arrived, and there was a lot of turnover. Stoudemire & Melo aren’t good defenders, etc. Then there’s his time in LA with the injury-riddled Lakers. There’s no arguing that the major emphasis in Phoenix was offense, but that was in part because they felt like they could outscore any team in the league. There hasn’t been that assumption in LA.

            San Antonio is not a slow team. If you’ve ever watched a Spurs game and listened to Pop on the sidelines he’s always telling them to push the pace. Yes, they’re a good defensive team. They have good defensive players. The Lakers don’t. I don’t discount the coaching of Popovich either. I have never said MDA is as good a coach as Popovich. I also don’t consider the Spurs a low-post offense. Duncan can still get up the floor, and he’s a good outside shooter. He’s not primarily a back-to-the basket player. Yes, they shoot the 3 and spread the floor, and are in no way an old-school half-court offense.

            If you watch the best teams in the league you’ll find that they spread the floor. The paint is not clogged. Rebounding is important, but so is making room for your PG (and your center) to operate. What you need are players like Hill or Kevin Love who are committed to rebounding. That can be done in any system. The Heat manage to win without rebounding, but that doesn’t mean it’s not important.

            You seem intent on misrepresenting what I have said. I am not in love with MDA’s numbers. I have just stated facts. What this all boils down to is the fact that most teams play offenses based on the D’Antoni system, you can’t play good defense without good defensive players and a stable lineup that trusts each other to rotate, etc,, you can’t compete against teams in the West with subpar talent, and you can’t evaluate the performance of a coach in his 2nd year with a team that had 319 games lost due to injury and the talent level that was on the floor most of the season. Whatever your opinion of D’Antoni and his system, it’s undeniable that he is a proven winner with the right players. It remains to be seen whether he’ll be given an opportunity to prove he can do that in LA with a healthy roster. It’s like the guy coaching the Trailblazers. He was unsuccessful before coming to Portland. Now he has the players, and he’s having a good year. Maybe you believe MDA can’t win regardless of the players, but history says otherwise. Even Phil had to have the right players to be successful.

  • TheTruthKills

    I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again, small ball doesn’t mean they’re running the D’Antoni system. D’Antoni didn’t invent small ball.

    • Daryl Peek

      Agreed but he sure got folks attention with how he implemented it. Pop, Spoelstra, and many other coaching peers all credit MDA for shaping their views on the new wave of how basketball is now played.

      • kookiebuger

        That may be true but unlike Mike they managed to adjust and benefit from small ball, they aren’t just jacking up 3′s and give minimum effort on defense.

      • independentbynature

        That’s a joke.Antoni would have Duncan on the bench or on the 3pt. line.

        • Daryl Peek

          Again with the elementary quick whip commentary. Amare was a monster playing in the post for MDA. Gasol said in his exit interview he could play in the D’Antoni system as THE center. please stop it mayne.

          • ra

            Amare was a more ‘athletic’ player than Gasol, less of a ‘post-up’ player and actually more like DH (who ‘should have’ fit in well with this system). And, he had Steve Nash lobbing him the ball for many an ‘exciting’ dunk, or great pass as Amare runs to the basket.

            The Athletic Bigs are more rare (again, like DH, Amare, etc.); the post-up players (like Shaq, Bynum, and even Gasol) don’t work as well in MDA’s system.

            Maybe Hibbert, one of the Lopez’s, Varejao would work ok in the small ball system?

          • Daryl Peek

            Nash missed 50 games after game one of the season. Nash never got the opportunity to play the D’Antoni system with Howard and Howard was being a little punk in not wanting to run the offense.

            Gasol performed quite well with a stretch 4 all season this year when he got out of his emotions and just played ball. His numbers were the best they’ve been in a couple of seasons. Remember Gasol is much like his brother in that he has the ability to facilitate the offense from the elbow. Pau often did this playing with Kobe as Kobe posted up.

            MDA does not run small ball all of the time. He allows big’s to work in the post as Hill, Kaman and Gasol all had touches down low. Pau and Kaman can run pick and pop or roll also. Hill is taylor made for that kind of role and that is why he just had the best season of his career this year under MDA.

          • ra

            Agreed, which just shows that Gasol is a versatile player, and did implement whatever MDA planned for a game (eventually).

            It’s too bad that Nash got injured so quickly – we would have seen some great basketball with Nash-DH-Kobe-Gasol.

            And lastly, yes – Hill is more ‘athletic’, and fits well with MDA’s system. An exciting player.

          • J Taylor

            Gasol DIDN’T implement the MDA plan. He got aggressive and reverted to his old self playing in the post and on the elbow.

            D’antoni’s system works well with young kids who can and want to run. And statistically, when both teams aren’t great shooters the one who jacks up enough shots will win. But in the NBA, there are other factors and guys who are as consistent or better.

          • hookedonnews

            What Gasol did was what D’Antoni told him he always had the freedom to do once he got the ball in his hands. No one forced him to stand at the FT line and shoot or pass. Maybe he was less aggressive early in the season because he was still recovering from the knee procedures and wasn’t in great shape. Whatever the reason, once he started getting aggressive he played well. He’s one of those players who was stuck in the past and maybe finally realized that he could play in that system.

            D’Antoni’s system doesn’t only work with young players. Both the Spurs & Heat have older players who are able to run the court and play with pace. Nash can still run this offense when he’s healthy to great effect, and he’s not exactly a spring chicken. And there’s more to the D’Antoni system than running and shooting. It’s also about floor spacing, ball movement, and penetration. It’s a very effective offense when it’s run properly. Trying to evaluate the system when it’s being run by a bunch of 2nd rate players is not exactly optimal.

          • Spitfire

            Read the whole report before you all comment

          • independentbynature

            Please…….Fastbreak dunks are not a monster low post game.I question whether you know anything at all about basketball.Daryl.I knew you were clueless when it came to defense,but you don’t understand either side of the game.

    • Spitfire

      MDA is the inventor of the small ball or skill ball. Read the whole article :

      It’s no secret the landscape of the NBA has changed.

      Fewer teams employ traditional five-man lineups with a power forward and center. Rather, you will find a small forward or swingman playing a stretch-four alongside a power forward at the center position.

      “When we started in Phoenix, they said you couldn’t win playing the way we wanted,” Lakers assistant coach Dan D’Antoni said. “We were the only team playing that way.”

      Those Suns’ teams, where Dan was an assistant on his brother Mike’s staff from 2003-08, often used Shawn Marion at the four and Amaré Stoudemire at the five, both players generally more athletic and quicker than most opponents they matched up against at their position.

      With Steve Nash engineering high-powered offenses, those Phoenix teams tallied seasons of 62, 54, 61 and 55 wins. The furthest they advanced in the playoffs, though, was the Western Conference Finals.

      Your browser does not support iframes.
      Conventional thinking remained that teams needed a big man or big men to be championship contenders. The Lakers had Shaquille O’Neal during their “3-peat” run during the early 2000s; the Spurs had “Twin Towers” in David Robinson and Tim Duncan while winning three titles (1999, 2003, 2005); the Lakers had Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol during back-to-back championships in 2009-10.

      “Some of the hard part of coaching is to be able to drag people over to the next side,” Mike D’Antoni said at Lakers’ exit interviews. “People are comfortable with doing business a certain way. When that business kind of shifts to get people to change, it’s not easy. It’s a process.”

      Over the last two seasons, however, the Miami Heat have bucked that trend. Coach Erik Spoelstra used LeBron James, listed at 6-foot-8, 250 pounds, at the four, and Chris Bosh, at 6-foot-11, 235 pounds at the five, while traditionally playing smaller lineups centered around the versatility of James.

      ”Last year, you essentially had both teams – (Miami and San Antonio) – playing the same style that we had in Phoenix,” D’Antoni said. “Not only did (Miami) win once, but they won twice in a row. Obviously playing this way doesn’t inhibit you from being an NBA champion.”

      During the 2013-14 season, a number of teams boasted more success employing smaller lineups.

      Golden State’s top two lineups used David Lee at the five, with Draymond Green or Harrison Barnes at the four, plus Andre Iguodala, Klay Thompson and Stephen Curry. Their best combination of Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Green and Lee boasted an offensive rating of 123.4 and a defensive rating of 89.2 – a net rating of 34.2. *Net rating measures a team’s point differential per 100 possessions.

      Even during the 2012-13 campaign, the Warriors frequently used a three-guard lineup of Curry, Jarrett Jack and Thompson, alongside Green and Lee towards an offensive rating of 105.1 and defensive rating of 89.5. Golden State has now appeared in the postseason in back-to-back years for the first time since the 1990-92 seasons.

      San Antonio, who secured the best record in the league this year, were at their best this season with a smaller lineup featuring Tony Parker, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Boris Diaw and Tim Duncan. In 104 minutes together, that five-man unit had an offensive rating of 112.6 and defensive rating of 85.3 for a net rating of 27.2. During their 2013 Finals run, the Spurs second-most used lineup featured Parker, Manu Ginobili, Leonard, Diaw and Duncan with a net rating of 6.8.

      Despite a number of injuries and a constant shuffling of the starting lineup during the 2013-14 campaign, the Lakers played far better going “small” on the floor. Eight of their top 10 lineups featured a stretch four in either Ryan Kelly or Wesley Johnson, alongside one big man – either Pau Gasol or Chris Kaman. Their most-productive, most-used lineup consisted of Kendall Marshall, Jodie Meeks, Nick Young, Kelly and Gasol. In 71 minutes of floor time together, that unit boasted an offensive rating of 121.9 and a defensive rating of 120.0 – a rating of 1.9.

      “Small ball” wasn’t just something Mike D’Antoni created overnight. Using these lineups also coincided with crucial rule changes the NBA has implemented over the years.

      “It’s not something that one person came up with,” Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said. “It’s really based on the rules and the way the NBA is, I guess, how they feel the game should be played. The NBA just felt an open game, more up and down, more scoring and less physicality is a better game to watch.”

      The league average for scoring during the 2000-01 season was 94.8, and only four teams averaged more than 100 points per game. In 2013-14, that figure increased to 101.1, and 17 teams topped the century mark on a per game basis. Teams played at a much faster pace and the three-point shot became much more valuable.

      During the 2000-01 season, Boston led the league in three-point attempts with 1,633. In 2013-14, 20 teams attempted more than that amount, with the Houston Rockets leading the NBA with 2,179 attempts. In fact, seven teams attempted more than 2,000 three-pointers over the course of the year, the others being the Atlanta Hawks, Portland Trail Blazers, Phoenix Suns, New York Knicks, Golden State Warriors and Lakers.

      “Everything is with logistics now,” Dan said. “They’re finding that spacing the floor and certain shots are more valuable than other shots. Probably the most valuable is the three-point shot.

      Kupchak echoed similar sentiments.

      “The rules today promote that style of play,” he said. “There are actually coaches today that tell their team we’re going to score in one of three ways: free throws, layups and three-pointers. The idea of a two-point shot doesn’t even come up in a conversation with some coaches. That’s just the way it is today.”

      Starting in 1994, the NBA eliminated hand checking, in essence giving more of an advantage to the offensive player.

      In 1997, the league cut down on the “no-charge area,” from a two-by-six foot box to an area to a half-circle with a four-foot radius. This rule change encouraged offensive players to get to the rim or get fouled and go to the free-throw line. Two years later, the league eliminated contact with hands and forearms by defenders in the backcourt and frontcourt, unless the offensiveplayer was below the free-throw line extended.

      “When they said you couldn’t put hands on defenders, it allows for easier penetration,” Dan said. “In Phoenix, we were one of the NBA leaders in points in the paint and the reason we were able to do that is because we pulled the defenders out of there that allows that drive and penetration and quickness and mobility of a five or a four to move around and get to the rim against players that aren’t quite as mobile.”

      In 2001, illegal defense guidelines were eliminated entirely, and a new defensive three-second rule prohibited defensive players from remaining in the key for more than three consecutive seconds without guarding an offensive player. Again, this placed more importance on players on the weak side, or shooters who could space the floor were much more valuable.

      “It’s essential that spacing is maintained and takes away the defense,” Dan continued. “That way when you beat your man – which we use the pick and roll a lot to do – to get into the paint, the defender has to come a long way and then he has a long way to recover, and that’s when we’re throwing the ball out and trying to get as many layups, (free throws) and three-point shots.”

      For most teams now, that is what they will do: put the five best players on the floor and try to maximize their skill sets.

      “We should name it skill ball,” Dan said. “You’re playing guys that are skilled. You see that across the line. Miami has shown that. I thought we showed it at times in Phoenix. Your five best guys are going to get on the floor and play, and you’ll find the right position for them.”

      • TheTruthKills

        If you really think that D’Antoni invented small ball you’re high on something. Don Nelson ran small ball before D’Antoni. Even some teams in the 80s ran some small ball. Before you tell me to read an article I suggest you read up on some history.

        • J Taylor

          Get off your condescension.
          D’antoni invented an up tempo game based around skill players. It worked due to “hustle” and statistical averages that rely on a high volume of shooting.
          - If Truth Kills, after reading my words, maybe you’ll stop posting.

          • TheTruthKills

            The person I was replying to said MDA invented small ball and I pointed out he was false. People who know little about basketball (like you) see small ball and automatically give all credit to D’Antoni. Do a little research and after you discover the truth maybe you’ll start minding your business and roll over in a ditch. Feel free to stop posting like a moron, and I’ll stop treating you like one.

  • no”d”toni

    no matter how skill it is…………27 55 is the answer ……..defense > “skill ball” baby

    • Daryl Peek

      27 55 isall about injuries. 40-32 was injury riddled but players like Kobe Howard and Metta were there to help, I.E. better talent wins.

      • independentbynature

        How so?Antoni took a team picked to win a title and made a first round exit via a sweep.

        • Daryl Peek

          Said team lost Gasol for 33 games. Nash was lost for 50 games. Hill was lost for 30 plus games. Blake was lost for 30 plus games. Kobe and Howard never got along and Gasol was caught up emotions from being moved out of the post dating back to 10-11. Lets not forget Kobe, Meeks, Nash and Blake were not in those playoffs against the Spurs. Morris and Gouedlock were starting in the back court. You claim to be a fan since 65 man but go with the flow of newbie bandwagon fans looking for the easy button quick take hot points in the blame game?

          Those Lakers were doomed before MDA as they didn’t win a preseason game. Nash broke his leg in game on under Brown. Howard was recovering from off-season surgery. This years team was projected to be 12th in the west with a healthy Kobe Nash and Gasol. The win lose column is not far off those projections. I’ve seen you talk about the bottom line of this season complaining about how they play but Jerry West and most reputable coaching peers all say this Lakers team played hard all season. They just didn’t have enough talent on the floor.

          • independentbynature

            Kobe wasn’t there because Antoni wore him out playing him 45 minutes a game.The Knicks fans called it Antoni’s 4 man rotation.And who’s fault is it that Antoni couldn’t figure out how to use Howard and Gasol?No wonder Howard left.No big wants to play for Antoni.29th in defense is not playing hard.Defense is as much will as it is talent.Antoni is the worst defensive coach I’ve ever seen in my 5 decades of watching basketball.And I used to be an ABA fan.

          • Daryl Peek

            This is the kind of reply that makes me question your basketball longevity claims and sports in general. It’s common knowledge an Achilles injury comes from the long term wear and tear of repetitive stress of athletic motion. Kobe was wore out under Phil who ran him on average of 38-40 MPG the bulk of his starter years under him. Isiah Thomas and Dominique injured theirs in the same fashion.

            MDA’s rotations were not always short in NY. He ran deep rotations when he first got there just as MDA did this season while in discovery mode with the roster. Once any HC establishes a base core of players he will shorten the rotations. Pop is the only HC that differs from this. Phil ran very short rotations and always buried rookies on the bench while not developing youth most of the time. Phil squeezed the most he could out of the aging vets in short rotations.

            To ignore the injuries expecting results from this group, this season is ridiculous! They couldn’t even practice 5-5 for months at a time. How can you prep your team for game situations when you can’t replicate them in practice? How can you make in game adjustments under those circumstances?

          • independentbynature

            Unreal,Daryl.Now you’re going to blame Phil for all of Antoni’s failures?If Kobe was already worn out,then why didn’t Antoni rest him?Maybe he should’ve asked you about it,Dr. Peek.How many sports injuries have you rehabbed?I’ve had more than a few.You have an excuse for everything Antoni does.I question whether you know anything at all about basketball and you’ve regressed to be a pompous ass again.Must be your true nature.

          • Daryl Peek

            You are acting like a child. I truly now know you are not what you claim. 1965 my ass. Pathetic

          • independentbynature

            Daryl.just check your own maturity level,if you can.You seem incapable of objectivity and I’m a little tired of your constant insulting attitude.You ARE a pompous ass and I’m not the only one here who thinks so,Mr. holier than thou.Your ass,is what you talk out of.I could not care less what you believe.How dare I question the great D.P.,keeper of all knowledge and authority on everything.Grow up and stick that ego.

          • Daryl Peek

            Then stop replying to my comments. Outside of one incident I have not insulted you less it was in retaliation. I’m sick of your childish attacks! Miss me entirely!!!

          • independentbynature

            As long as you don’t reply to me,it’s a deal.I understand that you can’t handle a dissenting opinion.And you’re not being honest.You always belittle everyone else’s(the mob) opinion.That’s why I sometimes pick on you.You need a big dose of humility.

          • Daryl Peek

            I generalize with the mob theme. If someone takes issue with it that’s on them for feeling convicted. I could care less about others not agreeing with me. I speak my mind of the sports topics and keep it there best I can. Rarely do I step to someone condescending but because I differ from the majority opinion I end up retaliating to IRE over it.

          • independentbynature

            Whatever,Daryl.You should just tell everyone,”Don’t reply to me unless you agree with me.I can’t take it and I will retaliate with my condescending sarcasm.”At least then,we’d all know to just ignore you.Curiously that’s been advised to me from people on this site.Just ignore Daryl.We do.

          • spifire

            “Antoni is the worst defensive coach” = Rambis is the Lakers defensive coach not MDA. Hahaha! you really make me laugh

          • kookiebuger

            A good coach can work with anything. I’m not saying this would have been a championship team but a good coach would have taken advantage of the bigs running Hill and Gasol or Gasol and Kaman together with Meeks as a spot up 3 pt shooter, Johnson as a slasher, and Marshall as a spot up 3 or create for others same with Farmar. A good coach would have taken advantage of the bigs by telling them to hustle for every rebound and taken advantage of Farmar, Johnson, (he’s okay) Meeks defense and hope that Kaman and Gasol will alter a lot of shots because of their size advantage down low, this team could have made the playoffs.

          • Daryl Peek

            “To ignore the injuries expecting results from this group, this season is ridiculous! They couldn’t even practice 5-5 for months at a time. How can you prep your team for game situations when you can’t replicate them in practice? How can you make in game adjustments under those circumstances?”

            Hill played in 72 of 82 games and started more this season than he has the previous 4 years of his career. Hill missed like half of those 10 games due to injury. Hill played next to Gasol more than any other big this season. Kaman told MDA he did not want to play a back up role where he would only get about 15 to 20 MPG like Hill and Sacre did. Kelly and Wes Johnson were the most productive line ups together this season as the big’s together did not function at all. Kaman and Gasol admitted to this.

            Players adapt to the coaching style. Phil and Tex brought the triangle to the Lakers. Those Lakers were knocking on the door with Del Harris and they adapted to the triangle not the other way around. Both Kobe and Shaq were allowed to stray from the script as most coaches allow for this in getting the best out of their players. MDA did this with Kobe Gasol and even Howard. MDA did not interfere with what Kobe tried to do in playing the ball movement stopping two man game with Pau upon his return this season. Howard and Gasol played together plenty of games and Gasol was not going to be feature in the post over Howard, just as Gasol and Bynum never truly played together often. Bynum was either hurt of benched for Lo a stretch 4.

            The bench mob played D’Antoni’s preferred style and they constantly out shinned and out scored the bigger starters. Hill was often the center of the small ball bench group. There are so many other things that most try to use to discredit MDA and how things went this season that I could break down in recollection. The bottom line is this group was decimated with injuries and weren’t talented enough 1-12 in the first place.

          • stephen

            i stopped at good coaches can work with anything….. Name one

          • Josh

            You must be right. MDA probably did tell his bigs not to get rebounds. Jordan Farmar summed it up nicely in his exit interview. All a big has to do to have success in this system is set a screen, roll to the basket, and get an easy layup. How hard is that? Set a screen and roll to the basket.

        • stephen

          injuries idiot

          • independentbynature

            Incompetence,moron.

      • no”d”toni

        i don’t think so….this team is just lack of defense, always look for three point attempt. No “D” antoni just never know how to play some inside game. I feel angry about his coaching style as he never respect post player E.g Pau, kaman ,J Hill. Seriously ,It is not all about injuries

        • Daryl Peek

          Yet all of those big players had good numbers playing in the D’antoni system? Hill got more PT and started more games than he ever did in his entire career playing for the coach who does not respect big players? Hill played together with Gasol more than any player in the front court this season?

          Kobe played 6 games this season. Nash played 13 games this season. Gasol was in and out of the line up and never truly got healthy from off season surgery. 300 plus games missed to injuries, no team wins when you have that dynamic.

          • no”d”toni

            More point and more time ? 20.8MIN per game is just not enough for him. This guy just proof that he can be a double double machine, but D’antoni only want to have a extreme 3 point shooting game. That’s why he said he won’t stay in LA if the playing time like this year. He deserve a starting role and play around 30 min per game. How about Chris kaman? He almost sit in the bench half of the season.

            So why Dwright, kaman , pau , hill implied don’t want to stay in LA when Mr D’antioni is still coaching.

          • Josh

            Jordan Hill said himself that he should play 25-27 minutes a game. That’s not a starter (unless you’re Kendrick Perkins). Dwight was just a punk who refused to play pick-and-roll. That’s all he had to do last season, and he could have scored 30 ppg.

          • Daryl Peek

            20.8 MPG is more than he’s ever gotten in his previous 4 seasons as a pro so while he’s understandably chomping at the bit for more, that was not unreasonable for MDA to give him the most he’s EVER gotten. and again he started more games this season than his previous 4 seasons combined. You need to think about that really!

            Please show me the NBA team that plays 4 centers heavy minutes? It does not exist so stop trying to make MDA the bad guy in holding him to a standard that no one keeps. There’s only 48 minutes in a basketball game and only two centers get the bulk of that minutes burn on any given team. Gasol got 31.4 MPG this season (lowest of his career) and that leaves 16.6 for a back up. Again, Kaman told MDA he was not down with playing that limited of a role. Hill getting 20.8 means he played PF quite often next to Gasol. MDA prefers a stretch 4 but allowed not only Hill but other big’s to play the position this season. Sacre took the garbage minutes of 16.6 willingly. Kaman got in when Gasol was hurt. and Hill was a constant play in 72 games this season, most of all the big’s.

            This misuse complaints are way overblown when you take inventory. I’m sure you’ll continue to jump past all that I pointed out and go directly to the personality conflict that’s perceived. Again, Gasol & Kaman have both agreed the twin tower theme was a bad idea for this group. Gasol said he could play in the system as the main center. Kaman understands why he was left out of the mix and agrees developing Sacre and Kelly was necessary. You can’t have it all for all of them. Someone was gonna have to ride the pine and MDA did the best he could to a fault trying to get minutes to 4 centers. The team injuries allowed for that as if they weren’t so many you’d see some get less burn like on other teams with healthier rosters. Look at the Clippers for example. Outside of Jordan and Griffin other big’s don’t much get PT. Asik is whining about his lessened role in Houston since Howard arrived. He wants out. This is not exclusive to D’Antoni like you all try to coin it!

  • http://growingforward.net Scott Asai

    More like stupid ball…

  • jhernandez1981

    His Suns teams didn’t work as they couldn’t maintain down the stretch. Whatever success they had was based around a core made up of three top tier players – two of whom he ground down. Its a fools philosophy, made even more pathetic by claiming Miami ran the same style despite the obvious fact that they played very strong defense on back of a system that capitalized on an abundance of marquee players and skilled journeymen that allowed them to quickly and efficiently spread the floor. Not the same thing.

    • Spitfire

      Read the whole article first

      It’s no secret the landscape of the NBA has changed.

      Fewer teams employ traditional five-man lineups with a power forward and center. Rather, you will find a small forward or swingman playing a stretch-four alongside a power forward at the center position.

      “When we started in Phoenix, they said you couldn’t win playing the way we wanted,” Lakers assistant coach Dan D’Antoni said. “We were the only team playing that way.”

      Those Suns’ teams, where Dan was an assistant on his brother Mike’s staff from 2003-08, often used Shawn Marion at the four and Amaré Stoudemire at the five, both players generally more athletic and quicker than most opponents they matched up against at their position.

      With Steve Nash engineering high-powered offenses, those Phoenix teams tallied seasons of 62, 54, 61 and 55 wins. The furthest they advanced in the playoffs, though, was the Western Conference Finals.

      Your browser does not support iframes.
      Conventional thinking remained that teams needed a big man or big men to be championship contenders. The Lakers had Shaquille O’Neal during their “3-peat” run during the early 2000s; the Spurs had “Twin Towers” in David Robinson and Tim Duncan while winning three titles (1999, 2003, 2005); the Lakers had Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol during back-to-back championships in 2009-10.

      “Some of the hard part of coaching is to be able to drag people over to the next side,” Mike D’Antoni said at Lakers’ exit interviews. “People are comfortable with doing business a certain way. When that business kind of shifts to get people to change, it’s not easy. It’s a process.”

      Over the last two seasons, however, the Miami Heat have bucked that trend. Coach Erik Spoelstra used LeBron James, listed at 6-foot-8, 250 pounds, at the four, and Chris Bosh, at 6-foot-11, 235 pounds at the five, while traditionally playing smaller lineups centered around the versatility of James.

      ”Last year, you essentially had both teams – (Miami and San Antonio) – playing the same style that we had in Phoenix,” D’Antoni said. “Not only did (Miami) win once, but they won twice in a row. Obviously playing this way doesn’t inhibit you from being an NBA champion.”

      During the 2013-14 season, a number of teams boasted more success employing smaller lineups.

      Golden State’s top two lineups used David Lee at the five, with Draymond Green or Harrison Barnes at the four, plus Andre Iguodala, Klay Thompson and Stephen Curry. Their best combination of Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Green and Lee boasted an offensive rating of 123.4 and a defensive rating of 89.2 – a net rating of 34.2. *Net rating measures a team’s point differential per 100 possessions.

      Even during the 2012-13 campaign, the Warriors frequently used a three-guard lineup of Curry, Jarrett Jack and Thompson, alongside Green and Lee towards an offensive rating of 105.1 and defensive rating of 89.5. Golden State has now appeared in the postseason in back-to-back years for the first time since the 1990-92 seasons.

      San Antonio, who secured the best record in the league this year, were at their best this season with a smaller lineup featuring Tony Parker, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Boris Diaw and Tim Duncan. In 104 minutes together, that five-man unit had an offensive rating of 112.6 and defensive rating of 85.3 for a net rating of 27.2. During their 2013 Finals run, the Spurs second-most used lineup featured Parker, Manu Ginobili, Leonard, Diaw and Duncan with a net rating of 6.8.

      Despite a number of injuries and a constant shuffling of the starting lineup during the 2013-14 campaign, the Lakers played far better going “small” on the floor. Eight of their top 10 lineups featured a stretch four in either Ryan Kelly or Wesley Johnson, alongside one big man – either Pau Gasol or Chris Kaman. Their most-productive, most-used lineup consisted of Kendall Marshall, Jodie Meeks, Nick Young, Kelly and Gasol. In 71 minutes of floor time together, that unit boasted an offensive rating of 121.9 and a defensive rating of 120.0 – a rating of 1.9.

      “Small ball” wasn’t just something Mike D’Antoni created overnight. Using these lineups also coincided with crucial rule changes the NBA has implemented over the years.

      “It’s not something that one person came up with,” Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said. “It’s really based on the rules and the way the NBA is, I guess, how they feel the game should be played. The NBA just felt an open game, more up and down, more scoring and less physicality is a better game to watch.”

      The league average for scoring during the 2000-01 season was 94.8, and only four teams averaged more than 100 points per game. In 2013-14, that figure increased to 101.1, and 17 teams topped the century mark on a per game basis. Teams played at a much faster pace and the three-point shot became much more valuable.

      During the 2000-01 season, Boston led the league in three-point attempts with 1,633. In 2013-14, 20 teams attempted more than that amount, with the Houston Rockets leading the NBA with 2,179 attempts. In fact, seven teams attempted more than 2,000 three-pointers over the course of the year, the others being the Atlanta Hawks, Portland Trail Blazers, Phoenix Suns, New York Knicks, Golden State Warriors and Lakers.

      “Everything is with logistics now,” Dan said. “They’re finding that spacing the floor and certain shots are more valuable than other shots. Probably the most valuable is the three-point shot.

      Kupchak echoed similar sentiments.

      “The rules today promote that style of play,” he said. “There are actually coaches today that tell their team we’re going to score in one of three ways: free throws, layups and three-pointers. The idea of a two-point shot doesn’t even come up in a conversation with some coaches. That’s just the way it is today.”

      Starting in 1994, the NBA eliminated hand checking, in essence giving more of an advantage to the offensive player.

      In 1997, the league cut down on the “no-charge area,” from a two-by-six foot box to an area to a half-circle with a four-foot radius. This rule change encouraged offensive players to get to the rim or get fouled and go to the free-throw line. Two years later, the league eliminated contact with hands and forearms by defenders in the backcourt and frontcourt, unless the offensiveplayer was below the free-throw line extended.

      “When they said you couldn’t put hands on defenders, it allows for easier penetration,” Dan said. “In Phoenix, we were one of the NBA leaders in points in the paint and the reason we were able to do that is because we pulled the defenders out of there that allows that drive and penetration and quickness and mobility of a five or a four to move around and get to the rim against players that aren’t quite as mobile.”

      In 2001, illegal defense guidelines were eliminated entirely, and a new defensive three-second rule prohibited defensive players from remaining in the key for more than three consecutive seconds without guarding an offensive player. Again, this placed more importance on players on the weak side, or shooters who could space the floor were much more valuable.

      “It’s essential that spacing is maintained and takes away the defense,” Dan continued. “That way when you beat your man – which we use the pick and roll a lot to do – to get into the paint, the defender has to come a long way and then he has a long way to recover, and that’s when we’re throwing the ball out and trying to get as many layups, (free throws) and three-point shots.”

      For most teams now, that is what they will do: put the five best players on the floor and try to maximize their skill sets.

      “We should name it skill ball,” Dan said. “You’re playing guys that are skilled. You see that across the line. Miami has shown that. I thought we showed it at times in Phoenix. Your five best guys are going to get on the floor and play, and you’ll find the right position for them.”

      • J Taylor

        How many words do you need to type?
        This is the 3rd or forth mega post you’ve type that no one will read.

        • independentbynature

          The short ones(under 1000 words) aren’t worth reading,either.

      • jhernandez1981

        hey look, an asshole can cut and paste the whole fucking article. Who needs to have an analysis of your own right?
        The bottom line is that they dont understand what Miami does (apparently neither do you), and both D’Antoni and Kupchak are either bullshitting themselves or ignoring all those guys who have actually led teams to titles not playing this burn out style of basketball that he’s based around about what he perceives as an exploit in what he imagines is an inherent weakness in how the league allows defense to be played. The problem is he doesn’t have a grasp on countering that exploit on the other side of the ball. At all. trying to out cut and out shoot your opponents without using solid defensive rotations isnt skill ball, its sending out your players and hoping your guys can hit a better percentage than the other team.
        Its barely coaching.

  • independentbynature

    Small ball = no defense = no rings……That,is a law of physics.

    • Spitfire

      Hey ! Do you know how to read?! I am laughing at your ignorance partly because for sure you didnt even know the whole article as reported by the official Lakers site. Too bad for you cos you only read the “small part of the story” then whine like bitches through the net.
      I will give you the whole story anyway, hopefully it will enlighten you

      It’s no secret the landscape of the NBA has changed.

      Fewer teams employ traditional five-man lineups with a power forward and center. Rather, you will find a small forward or swingman playing a stretch-four alongside a power forward at the center position.

      “When we started in Phoenix, they said you couldn’t win playing the way we wanted,” Lakers assistant coach Dan D’Antoni said. “We were the only team playing that way.”

      Those Suns’ teams, where Dan was an assistant on his brother Mike’s staff from 2003-08, often used Shawn Marion at the four and Amaré Stoudemire at the five, both players generally more athletic and quicker than most opponents they matched up against at their position.

      With Steve Nash engineering high-powered offenses, those Phoenix teams tallied seasons of 62, 54, 61 and 55 wins. The furthest they advanced in the playoffs, though, was the Western Conference Finals.

      Your browser does not support iframes.
      Conventional thinking remained that teams needed a big man or big men to be championship contenders. The Lakers had Shaquille O’Neal during their “3-peat” run during the early 2000s; the Spurs had “Twin Towers” in David Robinson and Tim Duncan while winning three titles (1999, 2003, 2005); the Lakers had Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol during back-to-back championships in 2009-10.

      “Some of the hard part of coaching is to be able to drag people over to the next side,” Mike D’Antoni said at Lakers’ exit interviews. “People are comfortable with doing business a certain way. When that business kind of shifts to get people to change, it’s not easy. It’s a process.”

      Over the last two seasons, however, the Miami Heat have bucked that trend. Coach Erik Spoelstra used LeBron James, listed at 6-foot-8, 250 pounds, at the four, and Chris Bosh, at 6-foot-11, 235 pounds at the five, while traditionally playing smaller lineups centered around the versatility of James.

      ”Last year, you essentially had both teams – (Miami and San Antonio) – playing the same style that we had in Phoenix,” D’Antoni said. “Not only did (Miami) win once, but they won twice in a row. Obviously playing this way doesn’t inhibit you from being an NBA champion.”

      During the 2013-14 season, a number of teams boasted more success employing smaller lineups.

      Golden State’s top two lineups used David Lee at the five, with Draymond Green or Harrison Barnes at the four, plus Andre Iguodala, Klay Thompson and Stephen Curry. Their best combination of Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Green and Lee boasted an offensive rating of 123.4 and a defensive rating of 89.2 – a net rating of 34.2. *Net rating measures a team’s point differential per 100 possessions.

      Even during the 2012-13 campaign, the Warriors frequently used a three-guard lineup of Curry, Jarrett Jack and Thompson, alongside Green and Lee towards an offensive rating of 105.1 and defensive rating of 89.5. Golden State has now appeared in the postseason in back-to-back years for the first time since the 1990-92 seasons.

      San Antonio, who secured the best record in the league this year, were at their best this season with a smaller lineup featuring Tony Parker, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Boris Diaw and Tim Duncan. In 104 minutes together, that five-man unit had an offensive rating of 112.6 and defensive rating of 85.3 for a net rating of 27.2. During their 2013 Finals run, the Spurs second-most used lineup featured Parker, Manu Ginobili, Leonard, Diaw and Duncan with a net rating of 6.8.

      Despite a number of injuries and a constant shuffling of the starting lineup during the 2013-14 campaign, the Lakers played far better going “small” on the floor. Eight of their top 10 lineups featured a stretch four in either Ryan Kelly or Wesley Johnson, alongside one big man – either Pau Gasol or Chris Kaman. Their most-productive, most-used lineup consisted of Kendall Marshall, Jodie Meeks, Nick Young, Kelly and Gasol. In 71 minutes of floor time together, that unit boasted an offensive rating of 121.9 and a defensive rating of 120.0 – a rating of 1.9.

      “Small ball” wasn’t just something Mike D’Antoni created overnight. Using these lineups also coincided with crucial rule changes the NBA has implemented over the years.

      “It’s not something that one person came up with,” Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said. “It’s really based on the rules and the way the NBA is, I guess, how they feel the game should be played. The NBA just felt an open game, more up and down, more scoring and less physicality is a better game to watch.”

      The league average for scoring during the 2000-01 season was 94.8, and only four teams averaged more than 100 points per game. In 2013-14, that figure increased to 101.1, and 17 teams topped the century mark on a per game basis. Teams played at a much faster pace and the three-point shot became much more valuable.

      During the 2000-01 season, Boston led the league in three-point attempts with 1,633. In 2013-14, 20 teams attempted more than that amount, with the Houston Rockets leading the NBA with 2,179 attempts. In fact, seven teams attempted more than 2,000 three-pointers over the course of the year, the others being the Atlanta Hawks, Portland Trail Blazers, Phoenix Suns, New York Knicks, Golden State Warriors and Lakers.

      “Everything is with logistics now,” Dan said. “They’re finding that spacing the floor and certain shots are more valuable than other shots. Probably the most valuable is the three-point shot.

      Kupchak echoed similar sentiments.

      “The rules today promote that style of play,” he said. “There are actually coaches today that tell their team we’re going to score in one of three ways: free throws, layups and three-pointers. The idea of a two-point shot doesn’t even come up in a conversation with some coaches. That’s just the way it is today.”

      Starting in 1994, the NBA eliminated hand checking, in essence giving more of an advantage to the offensive player.

      In 1997, the league cut down on the “no-charge area,” from a two-by-six foot box to an area to a half-circle with a four-foot radius. This rule change encouraged offensive players to get to the rim or get fouled and go to the free-throw line. Two years later, the league eliminated contact with hands and forearms by defenders in the backcourt and frontcourt, unless the offensiveplayer was below the free-throw line extended.

      “When they said you couldn’t put hands on defenders, it allows for easier penetration,” Dan said. “In Phoenix, we were one of the NBA leaders in points in the paint and the reason we were able to do that is because we pulled the defenders out of there that allows that drive and penetration and quickness and mobility of a five or a four to move around and get to the rim against players that aren’t quite as mobile.”

      In 2001, illegal defense guidelines were eliminated entirely, and a new defensive three-second rule prohibited defensive players from remaining in the key for more than three consecutive seconds without guarding an offensive player. Again, this placed more importance on players on the weak side, or shooters who could space the floor were much more valuable.

      “It’s essential that spacing is maintained and takes away the defense,” Dan continued. “That way when you beat your man – which we use the pick and roll a lot to do – to get into the paint, the defender has to come a long way and then he has a long way to recover, and that’s when we’re throwing the ball out and trying to get as many layups, (free throws) and three-point shots.”

      For most teams now, that is what they will do: put the five best players on the floor and try to maximize their skill sets.

      “We should name it skill ball,” Dan said. “You’re playing guys that are skilled. You see that across the line. Miami has shown that. I thought we showed it at times in Phoenix. Your five best guys are going to get on the floor and play, and you’ll find the right position for them.”

      • J Taylor

        Put down the bottle, rock, or whatever and step away from the keyboard bro.
        - When your “comment” is longer than the article you’ve done something wrong.

        • independentbynature

          Spitfire has a huge ego.He thinks we really care about what he has to say.

  • Nalin Shukla

    How about “worst laker season ever ball”??

  • Zimmeredge

    That´s partially true

  • Erad

    Last straw for me. See the thing is Miami has this guy on their team. LeBron something. When you have a player of a certain caliber you can get away with things other teams can’t.

    The 90s Bulls didnt have a dominant big man either. But since this clown doesn’t understand the difference between the exception and the rule the Lakers are at a crossroads. Either turn your back on this current idiotic trajectory, startng with Coach Pringles cut everything and everyone loose besides Kobe, Pau and a handful others OR become the laughingstock of the NBA.

    The Lakers are a bigger joke for every second that passes with him as coach.

  • Spitfire

    It is funny that most of the commenters here are quickly to react when they havent even read the whole article to be able to understand the whole context of the report. And here lies the problem with the commenters here, you are all being fed by this page only the partial reportIt’s no secret the landscape of the NBA has changed.

    Fewer teams employ traditional five-man lineups with a power forward and center. Rather, you will find a small forward or swingman playing a stretch-four alongside a power forward at the center position.

    “When we started in Phoenix, they said you couldn’t win playing the way we wanted,” Lakers assistant coach Dan D’Antoni said. “We were the only team playing that way.”

    Those Suns’ teams, where Dan was an assistant on his brother Mike’s staff from 2003-08, often used Shawn Marion at the four and Amaré Stoudemire at the five, both players generally more athletic and quicker than most opponents they matched up against at their position.

    With Steve Nash engineering high-powered offenses, those Phoenix teams tallied seasons of 62, 54, 61 and 55 wins. The furthest they advanced in the playoffs, though, was the Western Conference Finals.

    Your browser does not support iframes.
    Conventional thinking remained that teams needed a big man or big men to be championship contenders. The Lakers had Shaquille O’Neal during their “3-peat” run during the early 2000s; the Spurs had “Twin Towers” in David Robinson and Tim Duncan while winning three titles (1999, 2003, 2005); the Lakers had Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol during back-to-back championships in 2009-10.

    “Some of the hard part of coaching is to be able to drag people over to the next side,” Mike D’Antoni said at Lakers’ exit interviews. “People are comfortable with doing business a certain way. When that business kind of shifts to get people to change, it’s not easy. It’s a process.”

    Over the last two seasons, however, the Miami Heat have bucked that trend. Coach Erik Spoelstra used LeBron James, listed at 6-foot-8, 250 pounds, at the four, and Chris Bosh, at 6-foot-11, 235 pounds at the five, while traditionally playing smaller lineups centered around the versatility of James.

    ”Last year, you essentially had both teams – (Miami and San Antonio) – playing the same style that we had in Phoenix,” D’Antoni said. “Not only did (Miami) win once, but they won twice in a row. Obviously playing this way doesn’t inhibit you from being an NBA champion.”

    During the 2013-14 season, a number of teams boasted more success employing smaller lineups.

    Golden State’s top two lineups used David Lee at the five, with Draymond Green or Harrison Barnes at the four, plus Andre Iguodala, Klay Thompson and Stephen Curry. Their best combination of Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Green and Lee boasted an offensive rating of 123.4 and a defensive rating of 89.2 – a net rating of 34.2. *Net rating measures a team’s point differential per 100 possessions.

    Even during the 2012-13 campaign, the Warriors frequently used a three-guard lineup of Curry, Jarrett Jack and Thompson, alongside Green and Lee towards an offensive rating of 105.1 and defensive rating of 89.5. Golden State has now appeared in the postseason in back-to-back years for the first time since the 1990-92 seasons.

    San Antonio, who secured the best record in the league this year, were at their best this season with a smaller lineup featuring Tony Parker, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Boris Diaw and Tim Duncan. In 104 minutes together, that five-man unit had an offensive rating of 112.6 and defensive rating of 85.3 for a net rating of 27.2. During their 2013 Finals run, the Spurs second-most used lineup featured Parker, Manu Ginobili, Leonard, Diaw and Duncan with a net rating of 6.8.

    Despite a number of injuries and a constant shuffling of the starting lineup during the 2013-14 campaign, the Lakers played far better going “small” on the floor. Eight of their top 10 lineups featured a stretch four in either Ryan Kelly or Wesley Johnson, alongside one big man – either Pau Gasol or Chris Kaman. Their most-productive, most-used lineup consisted of Kendall Marshall, Jodie Meeks, Nick Young, Kelly and Gasol. In 71 minutes of floor time together, that unit boasted an offensive rating of 121.9 and a defensive rating of 120.0 – a rating of 1.9.

    “Small ball” wasn’t just something Mike D’Antoni created overnight. Using these lineups also coincided with crucial rule changes the NBA has implemented over the years.

    “It’s not something that one person came up with,” Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said. “It’s really based on the rules and the way the NBA is, I guess, how they feel the game should be played. The NBA just felt an open game, more up and down, more scoring and less physicality is a better game to watch.”

    The league average for scoring during the 2000-01 season was 94.8, and only four teams averaged more than 100 points per game. In 2013-14, that figure increased to 101.1, and 17 teams topped the century mark on a per game basis. Teams played at a much faster pace and the three-point shot became much more valuable.

    During the 2000-01 season, Boston led the league in three-point attempts with 1,633. In 2013-14, 20 teams attempted more than that amount, with the Houston Rockets leading the NBA with 2,179 attempts. In fact, seven teams attempted more than 2,000 three-pointers over the course of the year, the others being the Atlanta Hawks, Portland Trail Blazers, Phoenix Suns, New York Knicks, Golden State Warriors and Lakers.

    “Everything is with logistics now,” Dan said. “They’re finding that spacing the floor and certain shots are more valuable than other shots. Probably the most valuable is the three-point shot.

    Kupchak echoed similar sentiments.

    “The rules today promote that style of play,” he said. “There are actually coaches today that tell their team we’re going to score in one of three ways: free throws, layups and three-pointers. The idea of a two-point shot doesn’t even come up in a conversation with some coaches. That’s just the way it is today.”

    Starting in 1994, the NBA eliminated hand checking, in essence giving more of an advantage to the offensive player.

    In 1997, the league cut down on the “no-charge area,” from a two-by-six foot box to an area to a half-circle with a four-foot radius. This rule change encouraged offensive players to get to the rim or get fouled and go to the free-throw line. Two years later, the league eliminated contact with hands and forearms by defenders in the backcourt and frontcourt, unless the offensiveplayer was below the free-throw line extended.

    “When they said you couldn’t put hands on defenders, it allows for easier penetration,” Dan said. “In Phoenix, we were one of the NBA leaders in points in the paint and the reason we were able to do that is because we pulled the defenders out of there that allows that drive and penetration and quickness and mobility of a five or a four to move around and get to the rim against players that aren’t quite as mobile.”

    In 2001, illegal defense guidelines were eliminated entirely, and a new defensive three-second rule prohibited defensive players from remaining in the key for more than three consecutive seconds without guarding an offensive player. Again, this placed more importance on players on the weak side, or shooters who could space the floor were much more valuable.

    “It’s essential that spacing is maintained and takes away the defense,” Dan continued. “That way when you beat your man – which we use the pick and roll a lot to do – to get into the paint, the defender has to come a long way and then he has a long way to recover, and that’s when we’re throwing the ball out and trying to get as many layups, (free throws) and three-point shots.”

    For most teams now, that is what they will do: put the five best players on the floor and try to maximize their skill sets.

    “We should name it skill ball,” Dan said. “You’re playing guys that are skilled. You see that across the line. Miami has shown that. I thought we showed it at times in Phoenix. Your five best guys are going to get on the floor and play, and you’ll find the right position for them.”

    • J Taylor

      Wall of Text = Will not read.
      You wrote an encyclopedia to flex your muscles, but no one read it.
      - Brilliance.

      • independentbynature

        Spitfire is a legend in his own mind.

    • Doug Morgan

      Nice copy & paste skills, there.

      • independentbynature

        An original thought has never existed in spitfire’s head.He thinks watching Backstage Lakers makes him an expert.

  • SD

    The fact that the Lakers official twitter account tweeted this says to me 1. They want to keep D’antoni this season which I do understand in a few ways 2. They want to persuade fans that he’s got the team playing the “right” or “relevant” way to play. 3. They want to lessen potential backlash.

    I posted yesterday…if you look at the stretch when Hill first started in November….The lineup was Blake/Meeks/Wes/Hill/Pau…The Lakers went 6-4 (he was taken out of the lineup because he looked sluggish to the coaches). 3 of those losses were by 6 points or less to Memphis/Portland/Washington. Yes…10 games is a small sample size. Success of lineups isn’t just about +/- in my opinion.

  • ersliva

    small ball is skill ball if you can actually defend against the other team for entire game….but coach dumbass dosent realize that fact…because hes a lazy coach and only knows how to coach street ball offense and nothing more….he cant even coach a true team period…and lets face facts….seven game series is all about playing defense and not offense….and that explains why he always fails in the playoffs….and why he loses good players because they want nothing to do with him or his flawed system….

  • Lakers4Life

    Haha everything Dumbtoni says is a joke lol. His recent mighty poor reputation speaks for itself.

  • Sylvia Ross

    Who gives a fat behind what this jerk thinks. GO and coach your college team and try and talk some sense into your baby brother and take his sorry azz with you. Wish you the best. Now be gone already !!

  • independentbynature

    Call it whatever you want.I call it loserball…….

Privacy Policy | © 2014 Medium Large, LLC. All Rights Reserved

Scroll to top