25 replies to this topic

[Mohican83]

The state of Wisconsin wins a supebowl and loses its mind.  Why are they protesting?

1.  Gov wants to eliminate collective bargaining
2.  Gov wants to control Medicaid
3.  Gov wants to make public employees contribute more to their benefits which results in take home pay
4.  Gov claims this is needed to fix budget shortfall
5.  Gov created budget shortfall for the fiscal year by passing 3 bills giving tax cuts for business his first few days in office

Those where were never in a union won't understand the importance of collective bargaining and like Byron may think all public employees are worthless and don't work.  

[Bryon]

Whyyyyz little Mo Mo always picken on me.

[Mohican83]

Just remembering your statements about public employees in the past.  Do U think Gov. Walker in what he is doing?

[Bryon]

No politics for me thank you very much.

[TZT]

Bryon, on 18 February 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

No politics for me thank you very much.

Darn it!

[Juan23]

TZT, on 18 February 2011 - 02:58 PM, said:

Darn it!

[Mohican83]

Bryon, on 18 February 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

No politics for me thank you very much.

Congrats on the Cats winning the pac-10 championship this year

What if the NBA players union couldn't collective bargin.  Or collective barganing was outlawed in the USA? Would things be better or worse?

[Nanizm]

Mohican83, on 18 February 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Congrats on the Cats winning the pac-10 championship this year

What if the NBA players union couldn't collective bargin.  Or collective barganing was outlawed in the USA? Would things be better or worse?

Unions were formed to protect people back in the day when they were really being taken advantage of…not for multi millionaires like in the NBA and MLB.  Unions disgust me now.

[Juan23]

Mohican83, on 18 February 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Congrats on the Cats winning the pac-10 championship this year

A bit too early

[Kyle]

I'm in an odd situation. I'm part of a union, but hate being in it. I understand the need for them, but think they're being run poorly.

[BuckeyeLakerCub]

Mohican83, on 18 February 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

The state of Wisconsin wins a supebowl and loses its mind.  Why are they protesting?

1.  Gov wants to eliminate collective bargaining
2.  Gov wants to control Medicaid
3.  Gov wants to make public employees contribute more to their benefits which results in take home pay
4.  Gov claims this is needed to fix budget shortfall
5.  Gov created budget shortfall for the fiscal year by passing 3 bills giving tax cuts for business his first few days in office

Those where were never in a union won't understand the importance of collective bargaining and like Byron may think all public employees are worthless and don't work.

While I don't agree with destroying unions, I do believe that in some sectors, such as public education, union domination has caused the problems, leading to a lot of waste. I don't know the rules in Wisconsin, but in Illinois, tenure is based on service time, and service time only. Meaning once a teacher has enough service time, they can't be fired for being a shitty teacher, and good teachers get fired when they near tenure if they are too expensive. Where I work as a life-guard, my manager is trying to become a teacher, she told me she can't start working on her masters until she has tenure or else she will get fired for being too expensive. Service-based tenure then requires districts to pay them more every year to not teach, and hire assistants to do what the non-teachers are supposed to be doing. In a free market, they would be gone, and replaced with someone who can do the job. However, the REAL problem is the administration and their salaries that are as bloated as their stomachs. I discussed this with a former teacher of mine, he was like if Illinois schools are getting along without these 20,000 employees that they are cutting, why were they hired in the first place? He was like my first job was a gym teacher assistant, and he told the school that this is a waste. Why the hell does the gym teacher need an assistant?

This is the same thing that caused the American automakers to fail. Because of union domination causing higher wages, the automakers did not focus on fuel efficient cars because they were not profitable, while Japan and South Korea automakers were able to make fuel-efficient cars that were profitable. Then as gas prices increase, people don't buy these large cars the American automakers are cranking out, causing them to go bankrupt. When you have an institution that is dominated by a union that only cares about what is good for the employees with no accountability, and not the kids or customers, you end up with sub-standard products at higher costs than you would in a free market.

And even with Wisconsin cutting the business tax, they still have a higher rate than Illinois. However, due to the large amounts of corruption throughout Illinois and Chicago politics, Wisconsin is a more favorable place to do business than Illinois due to lower corruption taxes. In Illinois, they are talking about cutting pensions for current employees. That's ridiculous. A pension is a promise that you must honor. If you need to reform it, you do not cut what was previously promised. You apply it to new workers. I will end with this disclaimer: I am a democrat, but I do not agree with them on certain issues like this.

I worked on a local campaign this past election cycle (for a Republican who does not agree with his party on several issues), he is from Flint, MI, I told him this, he was like that's exactly right. He also said Roger & Me by Michael Moore is pretty accurate, even if he is a nutjob.

[Mohican83]

Don't those workers without a union live with the fear of being fired without warning?  Or the EA employees who were forced to work 20 hours of overtime a week without pay?  Where would workers go to get protection?  



Nanizm

"Unions were formed to protect people back in the day when they were really being taken advantage of…not for multi millionaires like in the NBA and MLB.  Unions disgust me now."


I guess U R 2 young to remember the NBA of the 70s and early 80s when the players would have to play 3 games in a row on the road.  People complain about the players being millionaires but rarely complain about actors who are also in a union.  Unions bargain with employers.  If the employers suck at negotiating, why blame the union.  Next accused defendents won't be able to have lawyers


Kyle

Would U rather have each employee go in and negotiate everything themselves.  


BuckeyeLakerCub
Wisconsin had a budget surplus for this fiscal year.  The new Gov came in and gave tax breaks to business in the 1st few days in office.  Now he acts like he needs to do this to balance the budget.    The Koch Brothers game heavily to his campaign.  The true issue in Wisconsin is busting the union because unions usually give to DEMOCRATS.  This guy and others like him are trying to tilt the deck in favor of the republicans.  The union has already said the employees would pay more of their healthcare and pension.  Also not the police and firefighters union are exempt.  Those union gave money to the Gov.

[BuckeyeLakerCub]

Well Wisconsin has to make it a favorable place to do business, and with Illinois increasing their tax recently, it will only attract more business into Wisconsin, which broadens the tax base. And can lead to more tax revenue. I am not a Republican at all, but I do agree with some of their ideas.

[Kyle]

I didn't say I wanted to get rid of them. I said they were being run poorly.

[Kyle]

When it comes to Wisconsin, this whole thing is about the unions collective bargaining. It has nothing to do with the budget. The union has said they are willing to compromise with how much the union pays for their own insurance as long they get to keep collective bargaining. Gov. Walker said he won't compromise. It appears to be all about destroying the union.

[BuckeyeLakerCub]

Well union domination is a problem. It should be reformed. Why can't a lousy teacher be fired if they have too much service time? In a free market, if someone is a lousy employee, they're gone, service time be damned. Why do we have administrators who sit on their lazy ass and do nothing but eat donuts and try to destroy students lives who get paid salaries as bloated as their stomachs? Why do we have gym teacher assistants?

[Kyle]

BuckeyeLakerCub, on 22 February 2011 - 08:34 PM, said:

Well union domination is a problem. It should be reformed. Why can't a lousy teacher be fired if they have too much service time? In a free market, if someone is a lousy employee, they're gone, service time be damned.

I agree with you. But I don't think getting rid of collective bargaining accomplishes that.

[BuckeyeLakerCub]

Kyle, on 22 February 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

I agree with you. But I don't think getting rid of collective bargaining accomplishes that.

For sure. I don't agree with getting rid of it either. I think instead what they should do is eliminate service based tenure, and there also needs to be regulations in place that a teacher can't be fired just because they're too expensive. Education should not be like sports in that regard, that once you find someone who can do the job cheaper you get rid of them, and only the Kobe's and Tom Brady's of teaching are secure. The real problem though is the administration. There is just an overabundance of administrators. Like my junior high district. 3 schools, at least 7 administrators. Each school has a principal and an assistant principal. And there is a district superintendent. You could get rid of the assistant principals, and possibly even one of the principals. And reducing pensions to solve the crisis is not acceptable either. A pension is a promise you make to someone. People who have been planning their retirements on that pension. You don't just change the rules in the middle of the game so you can win because you're getting killed. This is something I don't agree with the democrats on.

[Juan23]

The white wigs of the Teachers Union are collecting most of the money that is supposed to go to the schools ..

[Mohican83]

Well a buffalobeast editor recently made a prank call to the Gov of Wisconsin posing as DAVID KOCH.  Listen 2 it on Youtube or read the transcripts.  It shows the gov. is in Kock's pocket and what this is really about.

BuckeyeLakerCub

The school district authorizes positions.  Your 7 administrator issue has nothing to do with Unions.  Usually when there are positions like principal and assistant principal or superintendent and assistant superintendent.  The assistant is there to deal with day to day operations while the top person handles the overall and administrative issues